Dealing with end-of-life MS JVM support.

[alkalineX]

New guideline to receive PJIRC technical support (from me atleast).

1. Use the code check that Plouf has created: http://www.pjirc.com/check/

2. Everyone please update to SUN JAVA http://www.java.com/ . The Microsoft Java Virtual Machine is NOT being supported by Microsoft nor SUN, and neither should this forum. (Microsoft will only asisst you with removing and transitioning to SUNS' JVM and will only support any high security threats. Microsoft is not allowed to further develop there own JVM) The Microsoft Java Virtual Machine, or MS JVM for short, is an outdated, very buggy, very insecure and a VERY stripped down version of the real SUN JVM that was out at its time of release.

In my opinion, I dont think Plouf should support any further releases of PJIRC compiled for the MS JVM. This would make it easier on him when debugging code that will work on SUN JVM releases but not on the outdated MS JVM. And since Microsoft nor SUN will support or continue these older outdated Microsoft JVM versions, the PJIRC development process should not continue supporting it in future releases as to help with transitioning users to the SUN JVM so less debugging and porting time can be spent on the software.

To kick off the process, any individuals that report bugs or errors (and in some instances receiving support) for PJIRC releases will be asked there JVM version. End-Users using outdated JVM versions and versions that are "end-of-life" support will be directed to the SUN JVM/JRE download site.

Manual Installation: http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp
Windows Automatic Installer: http://www.java.com/en/download/windows_automatic.jsp

Thanks,
alkalineX

[gsingle]

i strongly disagree

my users partly use MS JVM and i think its an unnecessary inconvinience to force them to upgrade to sun JVM

[Thema]

i strongly disagree

my users partly use MS JVM and i think its an unnecessary inconvinience to force them to upgrade to sun JVM

How do you work that out?
I don't see where your users benefit from Plouf spending hundreds of unpaid hours coding for an outdated JVM, only to produce a buggy, cut back version of what was wanted.

If instead they were simply directed to the Sun Java download site, which is a very simple process, then everyone is happy, and the applet will be improved. Not to mention the development time would be cut down to a fraction.

Any other suggestion implies laziness on the part of your users, which is to underestimate them.

[klaus]

I have a lot of users who are below 15 .. and they wouln't know how to "just click" to install a new java.

There are also a lot of users who doesn't know anything about computers, and are afraid to click and install something. Some are also modem users, and they wouldn't have the patience to download java.

Most people who knows stuff like that could probably easiley download mirc and use that instead.

The main reason I use pjirc is that people without too much trouble can join the chat.

[gsingle]

i fully agree with klaus
that pretty much sums up what i wanted to say ..

[plouf]

We can't ask users to have a specific configuration. The software must run on the user's configuration or die. That's the difficult rule of today's software development.

The major problem using the /me command not working etc I've just fixed was due to the fact that I was using some non-supported feature on the MS-JVM. Problems were reported rather quickly, meaning that lots of people are still using it.

[Thema]

I have a lot of users who are below 15 .. and they wouln't know how to "just click" to install a new java.

There are also a lot of users who doesn't know anything about computers, and are afraid to click and install something. Some are also modem users, and they wouldn't have the patience to download java.

Most people who knows stuff like that could probably easiley download mirc and use that instead.

The main reason I use pjirc is that people without too much trouble can join the chat.

What a load of rubbish...
Go to any of your 15yr old's machines and see if they didn't manage to download, and install Kazaa, Flash, RealPlayer, Adobe reader, MS.NET, QuickTime or any of a hundred other applications...

Plugins for browsers are normal. It so happens that the java plugin is perhaps easier then most to install.

Tell me that none of them buy and install game CDs.

Continuing to support cross-platform applications is wise, yes. But not to hang on to a dead plugin, that is no longer supported by anybody, and is currently not even being installed on anybody's machines isn't sensible.

[gsingle]

@Thema:

We can't ask users to have a specific configuration. The software must run on the user's configuration or die. That's the difficult rule of today's software development.

[Thema]

I can read thank you. It doesn't change my reply.
Your attitude is as good as saying that this applet will die soon because nobody will install Java from Sun once they no longer have it from MS.

Well guess what...

MS no longer supports it. So Sun is the only place to go, or else get stuck with Win98 forever.

[Dave_L]

Does retaining compatibility with MS JVM constrain the development of PJIRC?

I provide PJIRC on my site to give people an easy way of accessing our IRC chatroom, without having to install an IRC client. The more compatible it is with whatever client software they're using, the better it serves that purpose.

[Thema]

I believe that it does.

There are many things that even the 1.1 version of the sun JVM can do that the MS version never did. But more importantly, it enables the java experience to be exactly the same whether you're using a PC, Apple-Mac, Mobile fone, Television, or PDA. It doesn't even matter if you're doing it in Windows XP, Win CE, Linux, Unix or anything that can use a browser.

The death of the MS JVM is a good thing, because it now allows Sun to get on with providing us with the product they always intended us to have, instead of Bill Gates and his cronies jumping on the bandwagon, and hijacking a good idea and bastardising it for thier own ends.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-MS, but MS have a lot of good things of their own. It's wrong of them to hold back others that also have good things to offer.

Also. I think you will find that most people now have WinXP. As a result they will already be quietly installing the Sun JVM without really bothering you about it. In order to make it easier, all you need is to ensure that you keep a very good link to Java on your chat page.